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Thread: August Raid Trickery

  1. #1

    August Raid Trickery

    Welcome to August hull raid, the one where Kixeye breaks the rules.

    Remember when I said Kixeye will change things once some information came out to the public? Well they just did.

    Let's look at the 104 target ships compared with the standard megahull format we're used to from previous raids:

    91 megahull:

    104 megahull:

    I'm not upset at how the damage numbers are creeping up, Kixeye were always liberal with their use of adjustable damage numbers. What happened this raid is a fundamental rework of the targets format. They're hardly the same ships anymore, and only visually share similarities. Key differences:

    The Rhinos get a new Heavy Missile. This missile has an 80% CM evade compared to the standard 45%. This makes it almost 3 times harder to be shot down with countermeasures. To give you a rough idea a standard Apollo + Switchblade + Barrel System 3 + CM System 3 has around 97% interception on the missiles we face in the regular targets, and only 61% interception on these new Heavy Missile. There is currently no way in the game to reliably intercept a missile with such high CM evade. Moreover, the new Heavy Missile x 2 that each Rhino is packing deal significantly more damage than the 6xSwitchblades on them. Most of their damage is now effectively uninterceptable. Oh yeah it also has 1000% hit chance compared to the 230% of the SB. You can dodge some of the SB if you have > ~57% evade, but you need over 90% to even hope to evade the Heavy.

    What about the Cruisers? Look at the new Impact Cannon. 105 range, can not be outranged. Deals over twice the damage of the Scatter weapon on them. Shoots every 2 seconds compared to every 9 seconds. 1000% accuracy. To put this obscene damage into perspective, you could tank the scatter weapon of the Forsaken Cruiser with all 5 ships clumped together getting hit with all 5, and you would still take less damage from the scatter weapon than a single ship of yours is taking from the Impact Cannon. And this is before deflection comes into effect. Deflection is highly effective against low damage numbers. A single hit from a high damage weapon makes deflection almost worthless.

    Look, I understand Kixeye needs to get their money. But they're really breaking the rules here and I find this extremely hard to swallow. I built my fleet to prepare for the current set of raid targets. This raid doesn't have a beefed up version of the raids we've faced, it is effectively a new raid altogether. In a game where it takes months to build a fleet, you can not promise your player base one thing and surprise them with another. Not while claiming with a straight face that the raid has a standard format over a period of 4 months. The fleet I built in preparation for this raid went from being able to get me 500m+ points, to several dozens, all because Kixeye cheated.

    Shame on you Kixeye, shame on you.

  2. #2
    Am i seeing 100% penetrative and corrosive defense bypass? This is as bad as assault and siege deflect bypass in May

  3. #3
    No, these are penetrative/corrosive deflection bypass to stop the pvp ships from being used in pve targets.

  4. #4
    Ok sorry, thanks

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Robert Jr, any chance you were able to get the 106 level target data as well? Wonder what is in there on that Mega Hull as it seems like some kind of super torrent missile as well when you try to take out the different modules.

  6. #6
    I'm not posting it organized as I need to do some behind the scenes work which I'll get to later™, but they've added 1-4 NPC - Legion Heavy Missile (the new rhino super missile) to each of the 106 mega modules and the new HC weapon to the scatter modules.

  7. #7

    106 turrets also have ~25-30% more damage than the 104 and are tankier.

    Something is not right. Firstly the 106 megahull has weapons equipped now. Until now if we did things right we took 0 damage from the megahull. Now some damage is unavoidable, which raises a question: Which deflection negates the megaship damage? That Impact Cannon on the megahull is most definitely NOT affected by assault deflection, i.e. the deflection we get on the Apollo, i.e. the ship that's supposed to do these targets. I don't think Kixeye is losing any sleep over this but the megahull should be affected by assault deflection.

    But there's another thing that's off here. I have seen the video of the 106 target being tanked by a Retribution. I have done the 106 with a crew and with a non Retribution tank, and the numbers don't add up. He's taking less damage than he should, which leads me to believe the Retribution benefits from its corrosive deflection against the Impact Cannon. I'm aware that the Impact Cannon has 100% corrosive deflection bypass listed, but I think there's a bug in the game.

    If anyone has a Retribution tank, I'm interested to know: Did you tank a 106 with it? Do you get same results as the video? Any build you can think of that would lower the damage from the Impact cannon beside putting four t5 armors which might add 10 deflection a piece (not 100% sure if defense handicap doesn't negate deflection)? And can you test if corrosive deflection affects corrosive damage taken?

    There's something very off about a pvp ship being the best tank for a pve raid....

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    I have a retribution tank, and it works just as in the video, have tried it in both 104 and 106. I did a small test with retribution and took 2 x scatter hits and 10 x cannon hits from heavy cruisers in a 104, total damage was 4816. Then I did the same test on vanquisher to get a reference value, it took 22740 damage from the same number and type of hits. Definitely something that is off.

  9. #9
    Thanks. As I said I suspect there's a bug where corrosive deflection is unaffected by corrosive deflection bypass. If you or anyone could measure the damage your Retribution takes from only the HC's Impact Cannon (the one with the 105 range) and post the numbers it would help determine this. You can try blocking the HC with a land tile to keep it at a distance from firing its scatter weapon. Be sure to specify 104 or 106 target, and how many shots you took for the damage (remember 106 HC have 2 cannons to the 104's 1). Oh and another thing worth testing, is the 106 mega hull Impact Cannon damage as it is not affected by Assault deflection, but would probably be affected by the corrosive deflection.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    2 cannon shots from HC on retribution was 900 dmg exactly (in a 104). I chose forsaken in the raid so should be a 6% defense bonus, or maybe defense handicap cancels that.
    EDIT: I did an additional test by placing the retribution very slightly behind a vanquisher tank, so that van took the cannon hits and retribution took scatter only.
    2 scatter hits from HC gave just 311 damage.
    Last edited by D_M; 08-14-2016 at 09:38 PM.

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